Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 24 Discussion

Immahnoob said:
How many times have you died, @Verifax?
If Emilia is below average in terms of photographic memory, intelligence and maybe even physically incapable, then sure, in a realistic situation, she would not be able to see that that's her own cloak.

As I said before, your basis on how recognition works is only a self-made example, the average individual does recognize their own clothes on another person.
Also, that's not really what I meant at all, re-read what I said.

Talon184 said:


I feel the same way. I haven't been very interested or impressed by it since then.

Immahnoob said:
@Bushishi @Verifax

Character development /=/ Necessary
This isn't an answer made specifically for Emilia, but in general. There's no reason for every character in every Anime, LN, book, movie, etc to change their perspective throughout a story. They could be grown characters from the start to the ending and not lose any type of appeal, unless you're completely closed minded.

As for Emilia, I hope you guys are making fun of me. What exactly has she went through for her to develop? As long as Subaru is carrying her on his back, you won't see any real development, unless you want it forced.
Hell, she actually had development this very episode. That moment with the children. Another moment induced by Subaru himself to make her stop self-hating and seeing herself as a "half-devil". I wonder why critical thinking is so rare on this Earth nowadays?
Are you certain you're targeting the arc as a whole, or only this episode?

Immahnoob said:
]If Emilia is below average in terms of photographic memory, intelligence and maybe even physically incapable, then sure, in a realistic situation, she would not be able to see that that's her own cloak.

As I said before, your basis on how recognition works is only a self-made example, the average individual does recognize their own clothes on another person.
Also, that's not really what I meant at all, re-read what I said.

Verifax said:


Who cares how often I've died at this point? Subaru doesn't. After episode 18 he doesn't give 2 shits about dying. Proof? This episode didn't even show him being fazed by being possessed or dying.

Why don't you people understand what i'm saying is that rooting for Subaru, without him actually losing things along the way, is a lot less interesting.
You wanna know why Subaru was interesting during episodes 14-18? Because he lost his anchor, his relationship to Emilia. Why? due to the permanent checkpoint damage.
My whole point is that he needs something like that again, a permanent loss like that to make us feel for him again. And for him to feel something again.
As it stands he could die a 100 times and he'd still be fine with it.

Immahnoob said:
Are you certain you're targeting the arc as a whole, or only this episode?

Jagd84 said:

That's exactly what I'm talking about though. Betelgeuse wasn't waiting from hem finish their conversation, their were having in middle of his freak out. He wouldn't attacked them in period at all regardless until composed himself (or what little he can) which could still hear, but not care.

And exposition happens during combat in 90% of anime. Even Ep 3 of Re:zero had a bunch exposition going in the fight there.

Jagd84 said:

Just like you did right now, people forget the details shown from previous episodes in this pretty often in this show. If they had not had those flashback people would have been complaining there being no context for why things are happening. You may possible be more observant than others, but not everyone is the same.

Jagd84 said:

I don't feel they were very long at all. They were barely minute and any shorter would underscore the gravity of what Emilia feeling and how important what Subaru said about kids were to her. It's one things that have been weighting so heavily on mind that she can't even sleep without her thoughts drifting back to it and Puck can only do so much to bandaid it. She simply trying her best to bottle it up, but even that having it's limit. The depth of a wound that deep is not you could understand just from visual cues. It's not something can be cured in a day either.

Jagd84 said:

Then don't downplay what is happening to "Emilia" as people being mean to her. It's insensitive to people who have gone through similar experiences.

Who cares how often I've died at this point? Subaru doesn't. After episode 18 he doesn't give 2 shits about dying. Proof? This episode didn't even show him being fazed by being possessed or dying.

Why don't you people understand what i'm saying is that rooting for Subaru, without him actually losing things along the way, is a lot less interesting.

You wanna know why Subaru was interesting during episodes 14-18? Because he lost his anchor, his relationship to Emilia. Why? due to the permanent checkpoint damage.

My whole point is that he needs something like that again, a permanent loss like that to make us feel for him again. And for him to feel something again.

Again it's still something I and others have experienced IRL so it possible.

We aren't denying her development this episode, nor are we asking for her to change entirely, I'd just like her to become a bit more Like Crusch since Crusch has it all.

We just want more development because even with the development in this episode she's still underdeveloped.

Kitsu-nee said:

Every episode ever since they started fighting white whale felt similar to me, so pretty sure I'm talking about this whole arc, excluding maybe Subaru's big breakdown time.

Bushishi said:


Rem gave him a moral boost bigger than the Colonists during the American Revolution, lol. With all the failed routes so far, I don't understand why you think there has to be another failure for the kid now, until the next massive conflict.
According to what LN readers have told me, arc 3 turns Subaru into a, "much tougher nut to crack".

Immahnoob said:
So you weren't paying much attention, were you?

Kitsu-nee said:

So you wanna tell me I'm wrong for not having fun with this arc and not seeing anything particularly extraordinary about it?

Ookay.

MagicalMahou said:
Well that was fucking boring.

Budget Excalibur had me laughing my ass off.

Plus, not so great Betelgeuse performance this week

Kitsu-nee said:

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm talking about, it's fine. Animation is fine, music is fine, characters are fine. Everything is fine. But there is nothing really special about this arc, nothing really unexpected happened so far, some random guys died but that's about it. Very few interesting interactions between characters (not counting the very begining of the arc), Subaru is pretty standard shounen protagonist right now. Nothing extraordinary about it. And first two arcs made me think that this series could be real great, that's what makes me a bit sad and disappointed.

That's just my opinion, of course.

Verifax said:


We aren't denying her development this episode, nor are we asking for her to change entirely, I'd just like her to become a bit more Like Crusch since Crusch has it all. We just want more development because even with the development in this episode she's still underdeveloped.

Yes, the explanation of what we said was this simple. It took all my critical thinking really.

Immahnoob said:
There's no need to twist my words now. Immahnoob here loves to work with these type of mistakes and crucify you for them.

I mostly meant the reasons you've brought up more than anything. What you feel is irrelevant, I'm not discussing feelings here...

Jagd84 said:


Crusch doesn't have any development. She well characterized, but hasn't grown in anyway. You simply saw more of her in different scenarios.

Nor does she need any, because she's a side character.

however it didn't really seem all that relevant, other than introducing Emilia's scene back at the estate.

Verifax said:


I just want a permanent consequence from which Subaru can't run from. That would make us actually pray for his death, or feel something for his succes. Instead of defaulting to: oh something died, lets wait for the next reset where he can 100% clear this arc.

But yea, Rem's confidence boost OP.

Immahnoob said:
@CaramelleAngel
It shows she's affected by how people see her to a higher degree than she actually shows to others.

The scene with the kids goes in tandem with this dream, that was the point of the dream.
This... Is far too easy to explain...

CaramelleAngel said:
I think this episode struggled with some pacing issues and the multiple instances of exposition had me rolling my eyes, but it was tolerable. Certain imagery was lost on me, for instance the flashbacks. It took a little while for me to get that it was I assume a dream? that Emilia was having. Still unclear to me, however it didn't really seem all that relevant, other than introducing Emilia's scene back at the estate.

I don't really have a HUGE problem with this episode being the way that it is. It felt a little crammed but I liked Julius' battle, and the back and forth between the two of them. I assume some relationship building went on between the two behind the scenes or something. It wasn't a GREAT episode, but I don't think it was horrible,I enjoyed most of it. I guess we'll see how White Fox will wrap this up next episode.

I will say this arc isn't my favorite. I do like Subaru as a strategist now, and the battles are pretty entertaining, but I have mixed feelings about Rem's role in general as a support in this arc. I guess I don't mind her unrequited crush on Subaru,(although his comment about him watching emilia while she watched him had me like lol?), but I think she shines best when she's fighting or like- involved lol. The crush thing has been all fine and dandy but I'd like it if she'd find a new role to play or take agency in something else that doesn't necessarily mean being Subaru's personal cheerleader- but w/e. I don't hate or love it tbh. Emilia is also still relatively underdeveloped. It makes sense because we are seeing her through Subaru's eyes, who still idolizes her. His savior complex has been getting better, but I do wish there was a little more of a glimpse into reality that we could see. For instance, i really found the scene with Puck where he turned into a huge beast and started freezing everything so interesting. That was definitely not something I was expecting from the little furry lol. To me, I find other side characters to have more depth or just be more interesting than Emilia right now. But, again I expect them to wrap things up, or do something wild for next episode, seeing as though it's the last one of the season and re:zero seems to enjoy ripping things away from you as soon as you have them lol.

Bushishi said:

Thing is, I feel as though Subaru's stopped idolizing her so much now and genuinely loves her.

CaramelleAngel said:

I will acknowledge that, like I said he definitely has lost a lot of his savior concept. However it's hard to really love someone without knowing them intimately. Sure he's much more into tune with her now as a person, and definitely cares for her and rem and the others, in a genuine way but I still think Emilia feels MORE emotionally distant compared to other characters, just because Subaru still has a lot to learn about her. I just kind of personally wish that this would happen a bit more quickly, but according to most LN readers they are staying pretty true to the story line, so I guess that's fine. Unlike others, I don't think it's THAT much of a problem in the show, like he's definitely progressed since ep one, and there's no denying that he genuinely cares for Rem, Ram and Emilia, especially after seeing them die so many times lol.

Jagd84 said:


Dunno what you want from the series then. I'm mean Subaru far from the standard shounen protagonist you can get. I've been surprised by plenty of what I've seen. I never expected Subaru and Emilia to part ways. I didn't expect Subaru would negotiate to a raise an army to fight the Whale or cult at the start of this arc. I don't expect Puck to kill him or what happened ep 18 in general to occur.

I don't know, at point any other series most MCs would have overpowered the villains thanks to training arcs or inherent powerups. Here we are seeing him rely on unorthodox methods to win his battles. Being force to swallow his pride of not being Kirito or Chuck Norris while finding his own niche. Having some successes should mean everything suddenly typical because the way he's accomplishing them is anything but.

Bushishi said:


Juuuuust when Subaru started to mature, Emilia ended up completely at a distant area, so I'm cool with them not having too much chemistry now.
Subaru has grown in different and minor ways. The biggest example being of how he speaks to the other characters. In the first ep he assumed things of Emilia without even knowing her, and thought Rem and Ram were complete opposites in terms of skills. By ep 15, he's clearly acknowledged that he's in reality, not a video game, and acknowledges others as individuals instead of npcs.

CaramelleAngel said:


I'm not disagreeing really, I do think he has come to respect her as a person more and less as a being he's idolized, it's just that she's always seemed distant to me, and continues to be relatively distant, however I will acknowledge she's been shown to be more of a person and less of a pedastool waifu. My point is just that I wish we could see more, since arc 3 is partially about saving her and the townspeople.

Immahnoob said:
Why do you guys love fucking up so much? @CaramelleAngel @Bushishi

Subaru is a savior. Emilia can't acknowledge it because of objective reasons. That's really it.
"Love" as a thing is also easier to come by than you guys think, geez...
Love itself makes one idolize their loved one. It being a motivation system and all.

Bushishi said:


I never saw her as a pedastool waifu, because whenever Subaru treated her like one, her reaction was, "what wrong with u?"

Aines445 said:

I screencapped what Betelgeuse was doing while they were talking, which the animators gladly showed, but I need to upload it somewhere and I don't have the patience, so I'll just describe all that I rewatched. Betelgeuse, at the time, was clutching his head, kinda (maybe he had his hands a bit over his forehead?)? But he was completely still and silent. He wasn't doing anything. To make it seem as though he was still in his freak out, it would've been nice to have a bit still be audible and fade as the focus is on Subaru and Julius, but this isn't done and it's as though Betelgeuse is silently waiting: we've never seen Betelgeuse silently freaking out, so we can't say that's what he's doing because it's uncharacteristic. But even beyond that, when Subaru and Julius finished talking, Betelgeuse asks them in a more or less calmer voice: "Is this farce over yet?" Implying that he had been listening to them speak for basically no reason whatsoever. THEN he actually freaks out.

He rages about the fact that Julius shouldn't have been able to see his hands, to which Subaru explains that Julius is seeing what he's seeing (Betelgeuse: "HUH?!"), only for Julius to gladly and generously add how his magic works, and how it's been done for also no reason whatsoever (within the context of the story; I would've let it slide if he said it more naturally, but he doesn't; it was almost as if he read it off the script) only to go do some banter with Subaru in the middle of the fight. Only afterwards, because Betelgeuse is such a polite dude despite his insanity (<3), does he freak out, which Subaru and Julius stand and watch for a while without taking the chance to slash him dead. Betelgeuse shoots off his hands UPWARDS and randomly, does random damage to the south (by aiming upwards???? Granted, Subaru is at the southern position of the whole area, but somehow his hands come out of another position rather than from himself to damage this southern part, which is actually a bit below where Subaru is and not really his position), and somehow, that makes Subaru and Julius need to jump up (instead of, uh, slashing the guy dead?)?? I don't even know what's going on the more I look into it, but I assume they're mid-air, though the background is all green (the trees??? But they were at an open area and the trees were various meters away). They're falling I-don't-know-where and talking to each other a slight bit before telling each other that they're gonna finish it there. Julius then just cuts off a hand, announces the bro-ness and it ends.

Basically, Betelgeuse was not freaking out in either of the instances I talked about previously. I've specified the first one, but on the second one, he's INTENTLY listening to Julius's generous explanation, which Julius had no need to give (Subaru already knew it; Julius flat out says Subaru was the one who suggested it). I don't have a problem with exposition, but I do have a problem with exposition that flat-out sounds unnatural and could've been executed in a much more effective way. If there was really no way around it, I would've kinda let it slide, but we could've been shown this more efficiently and it wouldn't have taken so much time from the shown. Really, if all these problems had been fixed, a lot of time for more things could've been saved and it would've been better, but that doesn't happen. I just wish the scene had better directing. Besides, every Betelgeuse 'battle' does a disservice to Betelgeuse's abilities and nature. I sure as heck am not freaked out by Betelgeuse because it just seems he can't hold a candle to anyone. The instances I described were just lame, confusing and not very clever in general. I liked Julius and Subaru talking, but it was dragging too feasibly long to the point where it wasn't making much sense and got unnecessary.

I won't argue that Re:Zero didn't have these exposition problems earlier on, but at the time, I was intent on giving it an 8 and couldn't tell these things. The level of exposition and ridiculousness in terms of combat in this episode is one I would attribute with about two of the worst shounens I've seen (which I have different standards for, understandably), and I don't associate these with Re:Zero; it blew me away. Basically, I guess Re:Zero wasn't that great from the start and I put better standards on it? This doesn't discredit the flaws present on Re:Zero when it comes to handling exposition, or those of any anime.

I was doubting how Subaru got the cloak and why its properties couldn't have been explained beforehand, and I forgot about one thing; this was half of the instances I quoted. Everything else is not related to me forgetting episodes, because it's about things that happen in that episode itself. The explanation of the cloak's properties is only done then, and it's almost as if this property was put on the thing precisely when Subaru needed to be incognito; as in, it's like it was thought up on the spot. Subaru himself doesn't seem to have anything able to carry the cloak, which maximized my doubts. Basically, if we had gotten an explanation beforehand, maybe around the second arc, I would've had no complaints because I'd look back to that, but since it's just now, it feels like it was pulled out of the author's ass. Especially since it's extremely convenient and basically described as "the magicz were put on it"; maybe the source material actually had it down beforehand (I'm hoping so, really), but this didn't.

Beyond that, Subaru catches the Witch Cult spy, and goes on to tell us everything that has been planned and done offscreen and what will happen. I would've let it slide, but it seemed a bit too contrived in the sense that you could tell this was made to skip everything ahead and tell the audience what'll go down. Or, actually, I would've let it slide if the ending part hadn't happened, to be honest; it just added salt to the exposition injury. I won't deny the fact that it's blatant exposition done with obvious purposes, but I will acknowledge it isn't absolutely atrocious in comparison to other anime or instances I've seen. Though still kinda bad in that 'villain explaining his entire plan to the captured hero like he'd never escape' way.

This time I counted; it was about 35-40 seconds (kinda long, but not that overly long). Almost a minute, but not one, yeah. But the thing is that this has been told to us already and we all already know Emilia's struggle very well; the lines spoken were lines I could even remember before the scene itself. If anything, what the show focuses on when it comes to Emilia is almost solely how kind she is and how discriminated she is, because these are the things that matter to the plot; we know this perfectly. The dialogues were ones marking for Emilia, but we already know that they were, so, in essence, we only had the need to see about 5-10 seconds of this to get an idea. It would've been just as marking. Puck worrying about her already makes us see that he tries.

To be honest, I'm focusing a bit on time because I feel as though Re:Zero isn't doing a good job of bringing out the best it has within its episodes, and it's focusing on certain things while skipping or ignoring others entirely (which may or may not have been in the source material; I don't know since I never read its) which hinder the show. I mean, the anime feels slow and it's rapidly going through volumes after volumes of content; I don't see how it's succeeding.

I said it that way because it was easier to write and less somber in tone (as in, I wouldn't wanna sound depressing), not because I can't empathise with her plight. I'd think that Emilia's troubles are obvious, thus without need for specification. Why is Emilia in quotation marks? Because other people go through the same stuff and Emilia is representing this? I'm sorry, but Emilia was most likely not made as a symbol to those struggling with discrimination, and instead this was put to her character more so she can have a character conflict in general. Either way, when I talk about Emilia, I talk about Emilia specifically; I'm not talking about anyone's real life cases. These aren't supposed to be associated in this discussion, especially because I'm not addressing that specifically.

Anything can offend anyone. I can't watch out for every word I say and make an opinion at the same time. Besides, opinions themselves can offend: heck, by exposing my opinions, I may have offended many people who like Re:Zero, unfortunately so. I imagine the people who've suffered through Emilia's problems are probably capable of understanding that I don't have malicious intent behind my wording (why would I?). After all, they, too, can make mistakes in their phrasing.

CaramelleAngel said:

Ok lol, I'm (probably) only going to do this once, but

1)I'm referring to his general attitude towards the world and people. Without the show spelling it out for us, Subaru went from "i'm the main character in a video game" and making jokes about the maids and general "otaku/gamer" comments to taking seriously the predicament he found himself in and respecting the people around him. We even saw how Emilia got mad at him for his reckless actions during the whole knight escapade because he was thinking more about his own role and being Emilia's savior, and less about how Emilia is actually feeling. This often comes from idolizing your partner as opposed to truly seeing them as a person and understanding them for their flaws as well as their good qualities.

2)Emilia can't acknowledge what? She's praised him for his good actions, like when he fought the Ma beasts and obviously cares about him, but she still saw through his selfish actions as he ignored her warnings during the knight escapade and ended up making Emilia into a bigger joke, as not only he was humiliated by Julius, but also Emilia. HE fucked up, but he learned a lot through that experience so lol.

3)First off, I don't think Subaru's crush-love- whatever rn is that big of a deal because he's finally learning to treat Emilia as a person. That being said I'm not really vilifying his initial crush during ep 1, just saying you can't up and call that love- people don't truly fall in love with someone after meeting for 1 day- but aight fam.

Also, to what extent of idolizing are we talking about? Sure people can romanticized the person they love, but that isn't, to me at least, what I think idolization is. I don't think idolizing your partner makes for a good relationship, like i said in my first point. It's pretty unhealthy because it leads to seeing that person as an object and not as a dynamic human being, which is what the show has been working on with their relationship- But you do you boo.

OrganicOrange said:
Said the same thing about Episode 23 and will say it again for this one, this series doesn't seem like it's wrapping up to an epic finale. The last episodes don't feel as "grand" as I'd hoped, and it just doesn't feel like we're getting to a good conclusion. 1 episode left and I've been quite disappointed with 22,23, and this one.

Jotakak said:


I LOVE JULIUS SO MUCH. THAT LINE MADE THE EPISODE FOR ME.

I can't believe there was an episode that left me with nothing but happy feelings!