- Nov 14, 2017
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simply: he will end up with all girls and maybe with other more side femmes too.
Ren'Py Superheroes Suck [v2.015 Public] [Solace]
- Thread starter Crazygamer43
- Start date
I completely understand you, but as a fellow DS fan I can assure you DS 2 slow pacing is the one amongst many many problems. Don't forget this game isn't made on a AAA budget. Little devs can't afford to disappear and this game slow but consistent updates is great pacing for this website. I'm not saying your wrong that the story isn't making big steps, but what I fear even more is a burnt out, blank page syndrome dev letting go of everything and never coming back to gem like this game.
- Sep 27, 2019
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This seems to be a common sentiment, but I will address this comment because I think it's closest to the raw expression of community discontent.
The game is progressing as fast as it can. That's all there is to say. I'm not happy about the pace either, but I can't write faster than this. The story is enormous, easily twenty hours long, with over half a decade of development. It's so large I needed to create my own personal wiki to keep the writing on track. You can consider it a kind of "technical debt." The more involved the story, the more time I need to spend making sure nothing becomes invalidated or repeated.
Also, the render quality has evolved tremendously, as has the consistency of the writing, the animations, and everything else. The game has improved in every area since its creation. I am still improving it.
How much is enough? Twenty hours isn't enough? For free? I don't understand the anger. You all know I'm doing this alone, right? When was the last time I went on hiatus? Never? I've missed my deadline twice in six years, and they were both for funerals. I took my first vacation last year and you still got three events because I decided to sit down and grind through the jet-lag. You get content every six weeks like clockwork. I'm supposed to feel, what? Ashamed? Guilty?
How many games have you played that were abandoned in the past six years? How many developers just took the money and ran off? Not mine. Not me. All I asked you to do is invest your time and I know I paid that back.
You want faster? How? I could finish the story this year if I cut Josie, Miranda, Artemisia, Lovestruck, and the other villains from it. I could start rendering the finale tomorrow. I won't, though, because I know people care about those characters and I know that because I care about those characters.
This is what you signed up for. I don't know who has been gaslighting the populace into believing that at any point my story was fast. It's not and never has been. It's always been slow because I want the players to spend as much time with the characters as possible. This won't change. Ever. And if that frustrates you, then you should leave. Put a reminder on it and check back in two years.
The main story will be finished when I deem it's ready. When all the characters have had their spotlight. When you've pushed through Riley's insecurities. When you've helped Valentina understand who she wants to be. When Harper forgives herself and Chrys can see what a relationship is supposed to feel like. When Josie can stand on her own. When Miranda can learn to lean on someone else. When Lovestruck can believe in more than what's in front of her. When Artemisia can be part of the world she protects.
And when I've finished the animation courses I'm taking so I can put some quality threesomes in.
Most importantly of all, the main story will be finished when I fucking say it is.
~Solace
- Jun 25, 2022
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I don't think update pace was ever the complaint, but rather the material of the updates.
Granted, that part of what you said leads me to believe that the ending of the story you envision involves finding Powell or close to the ending of it.
So I can kinda understand why we're in the character/team building phases right now but from a player perspective following the story it seems to be happening at an awkward time when a friend/mom has been taken but there's no urgency to find her. Although I'm sure the story will flow better when it's all said and done but right now players will have lost her on day 200 of their saves and by the time we see her again it'll say Day 1643 lol.
Personally I'll probably hold off on the updates until I see 2 or 3 with 'main story' in the change logs.
- Sep 27, 2019
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These are the same thing, which is why I mentioned that, to go faster, I would need to cut characters.
None of these additions are superfluous. Each scene is building to a future scene. I need all of them in the game. For example, in the prior update, there is a kitchen scene with Riley and Valentina. I wouldn't need to write a scene like that if I cut Artemisia and Lovestruck. It lays the foundation for future content. Their content. And it also accomplishes pieces in Riley's and Valentina's stories. This is the cost of having such a large cast.
I have always been upfront that the rescue of Missus Powell will be very near the end of the game.
- Jun 25, 2022
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Ah, that's a complete misunderstanding of what the story entails on my part then.
- Sep 27, 2019
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Hey, no one can blame you. I needed to make a wiki to keep all this together, remember? It's a lot. I know it's a lot.
I am glad that your characters and story mean enough to you that this is the method chosen. Too many just slap shit together and lean far too heavy on narrative convenience and porn logic for how they got from point A to point F. It is making me side eye a certain character that knows things they shouldn't be privy to. At least now I know that explanation will show when it's ready.
- May 8, 2021
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Hello, Knight of Solace. I know that many people seem unhappy with the progress of your game, but let me clarify this from my point of view. The people who give constructive criticism are not 'haters'; they are simply fans who don’t know what’s going on. If what you say is true and the rescue of Missus Powell is near the end, you shouldn’t have created the urgency to rescue her, as it feels a bit strange and makes the progress of the story seem rigid or too fixed on that. I know you work alone, and that’s why you’ve earned my respect. If I didn’t like the game, I would simply ignore it, but I hold it in high regard and I enjoy it; that’s why I’ve completed it several times and will continue to play every update. Don’t take this the wrong way—it’s just an opinion. I know I might seem like a slightly annoying critic, but it’s not to make you feel bad or anything like that.
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- Sep 27, 2019
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I know who the haters are and who they aren't. I'm not accusing everyone who dislikes aspects of the game to be internet trolls. I have taken feedback from this forum for years and I have implemented many changes to the game from that feedback. The initial hint system, removing the mandatory grinds, adding requested characters, tearing out the old slideshow animations, redoing the first three hours of content, and more. The biggest complaint I had received last year was how difficult the sandbox was to navigate. I have fixed that problem, and because I took time to do it, the next complaint is that there isn't enough content. Again.
It's a never ending cycle, I have accepted this, but if the main issue someone has is that the story is moving too slowly, I have stated the reasons for it. Making it go faster is impossible.
The urgency is where I want it to be. From your perspective, I should not have removed Missus Powell. From mine, it was impossible to keep her there. She upholds the status-quo. The trauma of her disappearance is what is welding the characters together. I know that is strange to see so many deviations, but at the same time I can't keep the tension steadily rising for three years. It has to flow up and down. I don't always hit the mark, but I am always trying to.
If Missus Powell were rescued too early, she would remove the protagonist from the Academy. There is no way she would condone the harem situation that is unfolding in her school. Part of the reason her story is at the very end is because so many specific things have to go "right" for a woman like her to accept an erotic relationship with the protagonist believably. In the end, I am forced to choose whether I want the main story to be better paced or the romances to be more grounded. I will pick the romances every time.
- May 8, 2021
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Hey, you want to add Missus Powell to the harem? That's interesting. Okay, I'll shut up. Get on with it. I'll wait for the next update.
- Jan 12, 2017
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I was one of those expressing frustration with knowing what the next event should be without stumbling across it. You did a great job addressing that and it really improved game play mechanics. One of the hardest and least-liked elements of sandbox stories is knowing what exactly to do to get the event to trigger (time, day, prior requirements, etc.) and it looks like you have that right. Thank you for the effort.
- Nov 14, 2017
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usual short and crazy update and plot going pretty much nowhere.
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- Aug 20, 2023
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Just wanted to let you know. I like the side characters getting their part in the story and I think it makes sence to delay the main plot a bit to further develop the world. I think the game is a lot better because of them. For example the part with Josie and MC helping her move makes the story more relatable. He gained superpowers but he is still somewhat down to earth and helps the people around him. Not just fighting supervillans but also with mundane every day issues. It reinforces what he was taught and shows that he understood those leasons he got. I thinkt the release interval is great ( especially since I am a cheap as an just leach it her ). I think you should continoue the good work you do and you should not let complaints from a few people get you down. Please continoue with your vision of the game. I think that it is developing great and am sure that I will enjoy the future development of the story ( side and main ).
As a proud fence sitter i see my sign, shining bright in the sky above Nierhaven. People need by impartial rambling.
On one hand, it is honestly quite a bit difficult to tell when the story moves forward and by how much. Currently we are trying to save a car, a cat and a lightning c*nt and our clues are a bike, a girl we dreamed about once and blood.
At the same time we need to organize patrols, a fitness training and a bathroom while we avoid both villains and other superheroes. Except there are several villains we need to talk to again and maybe a couple of superpowered people we need on our side. And we need to get two moms to trust us in order to get the third mom not to kill us eventually.
Just to be clear, i love this, but i rarely have any idea of what the results of our actions are going to be.
On the other hand, MC was given to main tasks: in game he was told to keep the team together because the girls would drift apart on their own and out of game we were told that there will be lots of romancing cute women. Fast forward a bit and people complain that patch after patch is about keeping the team together and romancing cute women. What did i miss?
is the distinction between main and side story more important now than the sheer fucking comedy that happens every time Riley is in the kitchen? Or the emotional roller-coaster with half the cast on a regular basis.
Jokes aside, i was going to write a witty ending here, but my superpower has it's limits, so i'll come back to it later.
On one hand, it is honestly quite a bit difficult to tell when the story moves forward and by how much. Currently we are trying to save a car, a cat and a lightning c*nt and our clues are a bike, a girl we dreamed about once and blood.
At the same time we need to organize patrols, a fitness training and a bathroom while we avoid both villains and other superheroes. Except there are several villains we need to talk to again and maybe a couple of superpowered people we need on our side. And we need to get two moms to trust us in order to get the third mom not to kill us eventually.
Just to be clear, i love this, but i rarely have any idea of what the results of our actions are going to be.
On the other hand, MC was given to main tasks: in game he was told to keep the team together because the girls would drift apart on their own and out of game we were told that there will be lots of romancing cute women. Fast forward a bit and people complain that patch after patch is about keeping the team together and romancing cute women. What did i miss?
is the distinction between main and side story more important now than the sheer fucking comedy that happens every time Riley is in the kitchen? Or the emotional roller-coaster with half the cast on a regular basis.
Jokes aside, i was going to write a witty ending here, but my superpower has it's limits, so i'll come back to it later.
Neat to know you show up here from time to time.
First off, I want to say that, as silly as the material inherently is, this is one of the better written games overall. There's a lot of breadcrumb laying throughout. Some of it might have been backfilled with later updates, but starting over from scratch, there's enough foreshadowing of things like
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The only complaint that I have with the writing, and doesn't seem to be unique to me, is pacing in terms of the main story. I enjoy all the character moments, and I understand that needs to be some up and down, and I do think that the characters having to relax a bit and be human actually is an important plot point for several characters. I just feel like some of the deviations, as you call them, feel like they'd have been better served before Powell went MIA.
For instance, Riley's recent events regarding cake baking and being afraid of lightning. Outside of one line about the MC potentially flying, I think both of these would have fit quite easily before the disappearance. The cake one set afterwards feels kind of like Riley having misplaced priorities, considering her mentor is missing, and she still takes about a month to resolve a cake storyline.
The issue with the pacing, more or less, is that time feels weird and elastic. The characters' and story's perception of how time flows feels like they're at odds with one another. The characters talk about Powell being gone for months, but it feels like if she's been gone that long, they'd no longer be able to keep it under wraps. I feel by now, there'd at least be some rumors going on in the city at large, and that there'd be other criminals poking there heads up with Unbreakable being gone. You mention Powell upholding the status-quo, but that's equally true for the city as it is for the Academy, and it just feels odd that she's been apparently missing for months in-universe, and yet that absence doesn't seem to have been felt in the city beyond a handful of characters. Even distractions like the sex tape feel like they'd inadvertently pull focus to Powell being gone, since I feel like at least some people in the media would be trying to reach her for comment.
I feel like addressing the void in the city would have been a good way to have the characters doing stuff (besides each other) that would lead to growth and development but not necessarily be a part of the "main story." Gives the heroes a chance to develop their powers, grow their relationships, build their brands, and get the experience it sounds like they'd need to take on the actual baddies. Maybe get more of a full team going instead of various dynamic duos. Would also probably quash talk about Powell because obviously her students are handling things. It just feels odd to have had essentially nothing happening supercrimewise that isn't related to her disappearance since it happened, you know?
Also, it's just really weird to me that the only seemingly unaffiliated bad guy we've heard about that is still active is Metal Mage. I don't think anyone else has come into play yet.
Like I said earlier, I enjoy the diversions. I'm looking forward to what feels like an inevitable "sex tape arms race" that I hope Chrys and Valentina initiate, just like I'm looking forward to what happens in the story. Personally, I'm left wondering why MC hasn't tried talking to Abner about how his powers work yet, unless he's worried about Shiro. Either way, it feels like he'd have tried to give him a heads up about certain threats to his person during one of his patrols.
Anywho, I feel like I've said my piece. I've brought up a few of the things I really like, a few of the things I find odd/lacking, and things I'm hoping get addressed at some point. Keep up the good work, and know that if I'm ever complaining about one of your updates, it's only because I like the content and wish there was more. It's like complaining that I've finished my milkshake and there's not more milkshake to eat. Yeah, more would be nice, but I knew the milkshake was the size it was, and that it wouldn't spontaneously produce more as I was running low, as nice as that would have been.
Take it easy
- Sep 27, 2019
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Deleted my older post as I got off topic toward the end.
Anyway, those Riley events you mention should feel disconnected from the main story because they are. Those are some of the "Sandbox Events" which exist to flesh out the... sandbox. I created these are small, internalized, three event story lines that progress to sex scenes in the game. I chose to do it this way because the demand for sexual content in the game outpaced what I believed should be in the main story. It was something of a dilemma, and I didn't want every other main story event to be about sex - and not for any high minded reason. It was just impossible to pace out sex scenes with every character and the main story together. The sandbox events separate these two features, providing build-up of the sexual content while also allowing the main story to only include sex scene when they would be appropriate for the characters.
You can actually skip all but... two of them, I think? The very first hike with Harper, and Riley's very first rain day event are easily triggered because they unlock other parts of the story, they're literally impossible to miss, but the rest have to be found. This used to be more of a challenge, but I made them trackable with the new navigation system due to feedback. They're something akin to side quests. You do as many as you like and then continue on with the main story.
As for why there's no supercrime spree, it's explained, mostly through the Detective and the protagonist, that the city is a dead-end. It's a tourist trap with nothing to see. Missus Powell is there in semi-retirement and focused on opening the Academy. This is why the Detective is so confused as to why all of these villains are showing up, there's nothing to steal but knick-knacks. That is, of course, unless the target were someone instead of some thing.
I don't want to diminish your critique. If I could, I would go back and written certain things differently. The pacing could be improved in various places, but I'm on a limited schedule and the content has to come out. "Fixing" things like this are nightmarish, because the removing and rearranging of events takes up a monstrous amount of time. There are plans for a combined team event in the future, but that will be for one of the biggest events in the game. In the mean time, it's just more economical to have Kelly give you updates on the city.
- Jan 12, 2017
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Hey, thanks for the reply.
The reason I brought up the cake baking thing is because of how it's implemented. On its own, it's a fine enough thing, but having it only seem to trigger on Saturdays means it takes the better part of a month to get through. Had it been something that could be completed over the course of a week, it probably wouldn't even be noticeable to me, but as is, the event's own pacing combined with its placement in the game's pacing means it crosses the line from being internalized and moves into the realm of feeling disjointed in my eyes. Other events, like Riley's mini-vacation, while episodic, still feel informed by the overall plot of the game and their placement therein.
It reminds me of how Bleach interrupted its overly long climax (mid threshold guardian fight too), to have a filler arc. Regardless of the necessity of the filler OR its quality, its placement was inherently a negative.
I'm also not complaining about having to do them or anything like that. I like the character dynamics, which is the reason I keep an eye out for movement on this game. To reiterate, my only problem with some of these scenes is that they feel like they'd serve their function better in different places, or by being faster to complete. It's just kinda wild to see Riley burning the candle at both ends trying to interface with everyone regarding Powell's disappearance to the point she's passing out on the fridge, to spending nearly a month trying to bake a cake.
And to be clear, I like this little story line. I think it's cute, funny, and has good character moments. But it's an outlier in how disjointed it feels compared to the other events, so it's easy to take a red pen to. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the placement of the thunderstorm event on its own. It just feels like an event that minus one or two lines, could have fit comfortably earlier in the story and not made the timescale feel as weird as it sometimes does.
I understand and respect the (im)practicalities of trying to go back and fix it. It's a nightmare in pretty much every medium. And I respect that sometimes you have to accept that "perfect is the enemy of done" and live with the fact that as tempting as it may be, in many instances that "Let me fix one more thing" impulse is a mobius strip that prevents the project from ever seeing the light of day. Whatever issues the game may have with its pacing due to how the vignettes and main story beats are dispersed is a drop in the bucket compared to the pacing issues that would arise from trying to revise things.
Also, don't worry about diminishing my critique. You could have said everything I said was stupid and I only thought it because I'm ugly, and it wouldn't exactly phase me. It's your project, and I'm not trying to put my thumb on the scale and influence what you're doing. Even if I was on Patreon, I wouldn't do that. Personally, I don't think the system of binding a creator to the whims of the audience and what they think they want via its paid polls is conducive to making good material. Just thought I'd share my thoughts since you were actually around. If you think any of my feedback has merit, I'm happy to have helped. If you think it's all garbage, let's both hope you're right.
Take care